Life is predetermined
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Life is predetermined
yesitstrue
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 12:39 PM:
Subject: Life is predetermined
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Life is predetermined, by anonymous, aka "yesitstrue"

One of the great battles of my mind has been trying to convince myself that life is/isnt predetermined. They say you only come to a conclusion once you stop thinking about something. This is not the result of me being done with thinking about it. This is me reaching a very mentally climactic part of my journey in predetermination.

The illusion of choice, of freedom, is just that. I will try to explain it in the same way I explained it to myself, which might be a difficult task considering each of us are so different.

You are confronted with a decision to make. You visualise all the options that you can take. But there is only one option that you are going to take, and you are forced to take this option over all the others, you would have never chosen any other of those options. Here is why. You are designed to always, 100%, choose the one decision that you think (as an individual) is most reasonable, the best option. Go ahead, try and do something right now that isnt the most reasonable option after thinking about this. For me, this was to punch myself in the face. Not the most reasonable option, right?

Wrong. From my perspective, the most reasonable option was to try and prove to myself and I did infact have a choice. That was the only possible option I would have chosen. I can visualise everything I could have done, but there was only 1 thing I was going to do - prove to myself I had a choice by punching myself. I couldnt have proceeded with any of those other options, because as a human I am designed to always chose that ONE option that is better than all the others(from my perspective).

To make this a little more real, I want you to visualise what you are going to do after reading this.

Could you possibly make any other choice than that?

If so, was that because you wanted to prove to yourself that you COULD choose something else?

If so, thats because it was the most reasonable thing for you to choose.

It was the ONLY choice you could have made.

The most reasonable, predetermined choice.
ughaibu
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:04 PM:

It's just so obviously false that it's hardly worth the time to address. Toss a coin, roll a dice, do you really think that you cant do what's indicated by the coin or dice? Regardless of your preferences?
Why do so many people hold the quite silly belief that the world is determined?
yesitstrue
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:19 PM:

It shows what kind of person you are if the most reasonable choice for you was to push this aside and bash it rather than hold down an intellectual conversation.
yesitstrue
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:21 PM:

The whole reason for me posting this was to inspire conversation, for you but mostly for myself, not to attract trolls.
ughaibu
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:23 PM:

Do a search. Someone posts a thread like this every week or so. There are more than enough of them.
yesitstrue
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:29 PM:

I guess by acknowledging your pokes at me, I am enabling you to continue to troll. I dont have much experience with this type of thing so I will just wait for the next poster. You can go ahead with that last word again. Just felt like stating this.
StreetlightX
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:31 PM:

You seem to be running around in tautological circles. Your argument boils down to: "Life is determined because life is determined". That's how this: "I couldn't have proceeded with any of those other options, because as a human I am designed to always chose that ONE option that is better than all the others(from my perspective)" (the only thing approximating an argument in your thread) reads anyway.

And besides, the status of "reasonable" as you use it is vague. What defines reasonable? And how can you be sure "reasonableness" (or the assignation of "the better option") isn't read retroactively into the activity apr├Ęs coup?

Edited by StreetlightX on Sep 29, 2011 - 1:40 PM
yesitstrue
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:34 PM:

Correct me if I'm wrong but the underlying statement was that you require a reason for existance? An explanation for human existance? I will try to communicate with you with bare statements/questions if you try to do the same.
mayor of simpleton
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:37 PM:

Just for the sake of asking, you would not happen to be confusing fatalism with determinism, or?

Meow!

GREG
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Posted Sep 29, 2011 - 1:39 PM:

yesitstrue wrote:
Please read the whole thing if you decide to post in here. Thank you very much for your consideration of this request.



Life is predetermined, by anonymous, aka "yesitstrue"

One of the great battles of my mind has been trying to convince myself that life is/isnt predetermined. They say you only come to a conclusion once you stop thinking about something. This is not the result of me being done with thinking about it. This is me reaching a very mentally climactic part of my journey in predetermination.

The illusion of choice, of freedom, is just that. I will try to explain it in the same way I explained it to myself, which might be a difficult task considering each of us are so different.

You are confronted with a decision to make. You visualise all the options that you can take. But there is only one option that you are going to take, and you are forced to take this option over all the others, you would have never chosen any other of those options. Here is why. You are designed to always, 100%, choose the one decision that you think (as an individual) is most reasonable, the best option. Go ahead, try and do something right now that isnt the most reasonable option after thinking about this. For me, this was to punch myself in the face. Not the most reasonable option, right?

Wrong. From my perspective, the most reasonable option was to try and prove to myself and I did infact have a choice. That was the only possible option I would have chosen. I can visualise everything I could have done, but there was only 1 thing I was going to do - prove to myself I had a choice by punching myself. I couldnt have proceeded with any of those other options, because as a human I am designed to always chose that ONE option that is better than all the others(from my perspective).

To make this a little more real, I want you to visualise what you are going to do after reading this.

Could you possibly make any other choice than that?

If so, was that because you wanted to prove to yourself that you COULD choose something else?

If so, thats because it was the most reasonable thing for you to choose.

It was the ONLY choice you could have made.

The most reasonable, predetermined choice.


I think your argument would sound more convincing if you replaced the word "predetermined" with simply determined.
There is a Spectum from Fate to Free-will.
Fate says that no matter what you do, your future is "written". Thus if you should learn of your fate and try to avoid it. That which you try to avoid will come to pass no matter what. This is contrary to our experience, as we know that our "will" or our personal actions will determine the path of our future ever bit as much as other factors beyond our direct influence. Determinism demands that our 'will' is also determined by events.
On the other side of the specturm, free-will proponents demand that no matter what are our determinants we can somehow make a free-choice regardless of our experience, genetic, environment etc. It is clear from your statement that you, like me, do not accept this position. And agree as I do that for all effects there are causes in an endless complex chain of necessity.

However, using the word predetermined rather than determined seems to imply that somewhere the future is written. That the universe is pre-conceived as if in the mind of a designer or god of some kind. Predetermined implies that the future is already laid out and known is some way. Clearly it is not. The possible infinite number of determining factors cannot be known and the future is yet to be determined.
Using the word determined instead serves your purpose more effectively.

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